Growing Pains, Part 2
One thing I truly want those of you who read this blog to do, is comment on it. I want to know if I am making you laugh, cry, get angry or, heaven forbid, disagree with me. I want to make you think. And I want you to point out to me where you think I'm wrong, where I'm actually wrong or where I am just plain dumb.
That being said, it has been pointed out to me that there are, in fact, specific passages in the Bible which prohibit homosexuality (thanks Dirk). Those passages are:
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.” (Leviticus, 18:22)
And,
“If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
Yes, the Bible apparently prohibits men having sex with men. That much is clear. What it doesn’t do is say anything about prohibiting men marrying men, which is what I was clearly talking about. Not to mention, no one has pointed anything out to me that prohibits women “lying” with women. Maybe that’s because the writers of the Bible had the same fantasy as 90% of the world’s male population? Probably.
I’m going to go out on a limb here. If you ask every Gay couple in the world why they want to marry, I’m going to bet that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH SEX. Call it a hunch, but I’m thinking it has everything to do with love, honor and legal rights. Hell, they don’t have to be married to have sex. Nobody does. All you have to do is look at each of your own lives to know that. And as I mentioned previously, how many married couples are having sex anyway?
It has also been suggested that I am condemning open bigamy. I am not. What I was simply doing was pointing out that the Bible allows (or disallows) for many things that in today’s society are thought of as “abominations.” The underlying thought here is if we are going to condemn bigamy (or polygamy) in our present society, are we not flying directly in the face of Biblical thought and practice?
So if it is alright to do that, then why isn’t it alright to fly in the face of other Biblical thoughts and practices? And no, I am not saying we should all start sacrificing our animals. All I am saying is that things change. They evolve. And society generally does a good job of adapting to those changes. Except for this one.
We frown upon those things; incest, animal sacrifice and bigamy. Yet they were accepted in Biblical times. If we wanted to truly live Biblical lives, we would be living them to the letter of the Bible. And I’d have three wives and the family cat would have been dead long ago.
That being said, it has been pointed out to me that there are, in fact, specific passages in the Bible which prohibit homosexuality (thanks Dirk). Those passages are:
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.” (Leviticus, 18:22)
And,
“If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
Yes, the Bible apparently prohibits men having sex with men. That much is clear. What it doesn’t do is say anything about prohibiting men marrying men, which is what I was clearly talking about. Not to mention, no one has pointed anything out to me that prohibits women “lying” with women. Maybe that’s because the writers of the Bible had the same fantasy as 90% of the world’s male population? Probably.
I’m going to go out on a limb here. If you ask every Gay couple in the world why they want to marry, I’m going to bet that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH SEX. Call it a hunch, but I’m thinking it has everything to do with love, honor and legal rights. Hell, they don’t have to be married to have sex. Nobody does. All you have to do is look at each of your own lives to know that. And as I mentioned previously, how many married couples are having sex anyway?
It has also been suggested that I am condemning open bigamy. I am not. What I was simply doing was pointing out that the Bible allows (or disallows) for many things that in today’s society are thought of as “abominations.” The underlying thought here is if we are going to condemn bigamy (or polygamy) in our present society, are we not flying directly in the face of Biblical thought and practice?
So if it is alright to do that, then why isn’t it alright to fly in the face of other Biblical thoughts and practices? And no, I am not saying we should all start sacrificing our animals. All I am saying is that things change. They evolve. And society generally does a good job of adapting to those changes. Except for this one.
We frown upon those things; incest, animal sacrifice and bigamy. Yet they were accepted in Biblical times. If we wanted to truly live Biblical lives, we would be living them to the letter of the Bible. And I’d have three wives and the family cat would have been dead long ago.
Comments
Dead people can't get married and according to the Bible, gay men receive a death sentence, so its kinda silly to say that the Bible doesn't permit men to marry each other because in the Bible, no gay men (at least)are alive to get married.
As for it only applying to men, correct me if I'm wrong as I am no biblical scholar, but my understanding is that rules are not handed down to women in the Bible at all.
As for bigamy, incest, etc., just because something occurs in the Bible does not mean it is condoned, but I do not know specifics concerning these relationships. Again, it is my mere understanding that the Bible eventually progresses to endorsing monogamy, but if anyone who knows better or has a source, I will quickly stand corrected.
Here's my biggest problem with the contemporary mainstream on this issue, however. For most of history until the last proverbial fives minutes, there has been a very deep consensus on the issue of prohibiting homosexuality across every corner of the planet, and among civilizations that had no contact with each other. Why? You talk about change, but what has changed? I do not rule out that things have changed, but I'd like someone to explain what exactly has changed?
I'm not religious, and don't believe in any supernatural gods, but I do respect biblical teachings. On the other hand, I do believe there are things in the Bible that become obsolete.
When it comes to homosexuality, I have ruminated over several possibilities. One is hygiene and health - back in the day, you can imagine that anal sex between males could get messy and spread disease in short order. One could argue that has changed - now we have easier access to bathing, preparation H, better doctors, blood transfusions, etc. Then again, the worst outbreak of fatal disease in our lifetimes spread like wildfire in the gay male community.
Another possibility is that earlier mankind preyed upon the weak, the way some species abandon the injured. Maybe we have gotten better than that.
Anyway, I am just speculating. I do not know why homosexuality was punishable by death and banned all over the globe. I have hunches, but no real answers to this.
So, in the end, you claim things have changed. Then tell me, what has changed? I've never heard anyone give a good explanation of what has changed. I believe the burden is on you to tell us what the change is, since you are claiming there is pertinent change - I'm not sure.
So that's my question to you - what has changed? I don't believe in the hokus pokus, but that the Bible is just a story with meaning. I take it as rebuttal presumption that the teachings of the Bible are wise.
What has changed?
I
What has changed about a "deep consensus" in the "last proverbial five minutes"? Hyperbole aside - What is a consensus and how does it change? What changed the consensus about inter-racial marriage, a taboo that seems so quaint to us now? Momentum. I submit that society progresses until there's a critical mass - a tipping point - and then the non-thinkers, the people who just put their finger up to the wind, just start to fall in line. Over the mid-range view, it will always look like consensus just suddenly flipped on a Tuesday in August. But of course this is far from true.
Or as Bill Maher said, "Glee" ...
How to explain Nazi Germany and such? Is the obvious breakdown in the nuclear family today a good thing?
Anyway, I'm still haven't seen an explanation as to why homosexuality isn't just a sin in the Bible, but - at least among men - punishable by death. Its easy to understand (and I don't mean justify), say, racism against blacks - it fit the plan of slaveholders and later those with advantages based upon race - and interracial marriage obviously puts a dint in those plans. Also, people tend to be tribal. But why the aversion to homosexuality?
BTW, those "pious" people on Miami Beach? They are against intermarriage, that quaint concept.
Anyway...its interesting how this topic cannot be even discussed. I'm not even really taking a position, just asking questions, and for a mere discussion "I have issues." Its like being back in Stalin's times.
Saying that because incest occurs in the Bible is living by the Bible is like saying a murder mystery movie is pro-murder.